I don't know what I want (Buyer's guide)

[pirxthepilot]

can't decide on pre-order for the new lemaire kaftan. i like the colour and general shape a lot but it might be a bit over-stylised around the collar in this iteration. any thoughts?


i don't think there is any choice actually. i blame u cyber-nerds for this

[BIGBEE]

does the collar not fold down into a shawl lapel?

[pirxthepilot]

^ i assumed it would, but judging by the pictures here it's intended to stay up
http://suspensionpoint.ca/fw17-pre-order-item-10

[BIGBEE]

Yeah I wouldn't get it unless you're making the most expensive neo cosplay you can

[oucho]

I think the binary narrative presented by online-fashion-enthusiasts when it comes to our relationship with clothing is interesting:

a) I must devote my entire existence to developing my 'supreme teen but ironic but I still queue' / 'enthusiast of Japanese artisanship' / 'yohji yamamoto' aesthetic

b) The above is too hard or too expensive I will just buy items that I want instead

I feel like most people on care-tags pretty much agree that the first is a result of how easy it is to present a 'perfectly curated' lifestyle on Instagram and co. What I think is interesting about these instagram pages is how bland the people who run them are. Their only opinions are endorsements of products, you never know what their jobs are. It reminds me of how Uniqlo brand themselves, really neutral. When there's no personality there's no barrier to inserting ourselves into the lifestyle. There becomes a separation between the products and the ideas that inspired them, curation of products becomes a lifestyle in itself rather than the outcome of a lifestyle. I feel like curated instagrams are the ultimate expression of neutral branding and the development of lifestyle as a product. Neutral branding revolves around keeping a product potentially purchasable to as wide of an audience as possible by only branding it in ways which are abstract and unfounded in reality, thereby stopping people from making the link between the product and its actual existence in the world.

The second idea obviously has the advantage that you no longer need to hold yourself to such immaculate curation standards and also that you can buy a brand even if it hasn't been classified as within your aesthetic venn diagram. I feel like it has a jizz of: I can objectively appreciate clothes based on their various merits and demerits, for example: features: triple-stitched side seam, bar tacking on pocket (unusual for this silhouette of trouser), asymmetric cuffs affectation or effortless? (further research required). Yes, I am a fashion intellectual and am capable of analysing clothes based exclusively on design, curation is facile.

As I write that I actually think that sounds great. The point I wanted to make was that engaging with clothes as individual items falls very easily into engaging with clothes as products rather than clothes. In other words we are seeing the next step in the Kafkaesque self-fulfilling nightmare that is No Cop by Riaz (good clothing line name)(Not to mention pirx's ongoing campaign to misuse his extensive armory of references to methodically stamp out every strand of teen thought (fascist)). What I mean is the difference between a t-shirt you buy from a friend or vintage store (for example) and a t-shirt that you purchase packaged in a tube with 12 pamphlets of varying sizes all earnestly explaining the importance of minimalism. My favourite thing about the eBay research thread is how it takes the branding of an item away from the brand and puts it in the hands of an eccentric individual. It shows the power of an individual to entirely define and re-brand an item rather than the other way round. It also leads to clothes being pulled into more interesting areas that brands can never go because they need to be commercial. It doesn't make sense to try to engage with an item of clothing as an individual thing because you are going to define what the item of clothing says to people far more strongly than the branding, or even design, of the piece of clothing.

That being said the idea of objectively evaluating individual items of clothing does really appeal because of its absurdity. Kierkegaard would approve as surely abandoning curation is a form of silence. If you view clothing as a form of language then it also ties in nicely with his idea that language was made to communicate basic emotions, not to fully express ourselves. It also reminds me a lot of the Gardenesque movement in Victorian England, if you equate 'nature' with curation could we apply J. C. Loudon's 'Principle of Recognition' to fashion?

[Bobbin.Threadbare]

It occurred to me not all that long ago that finding and understanding your own style is a privilege that few really have. I was speaking to a well-dressed friend (in that, I mean I actually wouldn't wear any of the clothes he chooses but they fit his personal style) about his boyfriend X. We were looking through STORY's latest collection together and when I asked if X would wear a Sundae he said "it would really suit him but he doesn't buy things like that because he's always scared of looking 'foolish".

X is a super handsome, fit looking dude who is actually a designer himself - but he comes from the majority of men in fashion who take cues from the accepted set rules at the time. He dresses really well, but he wouldn't ever step foot outside of the fashionable-norm even though he's an enthusiast of it all.

Lots of men I know are like this, they want to look good and not at all foolish. I have never felt like this, and I wonder if it's because I was an ugly duckling and never had to keep up 'looking good/popular' or if its a mix of other social stuff (mixed race? Lived abroad most of my life? Fearless parents?)

I don't think its a bad thing - being told what is acceptable may sound terrible on the face and super-consumerism but I don't think everyone wants or cares to spend so much thought on their style. But I do know that not having that worry makes me feel like I have a much stronger sense of what I do and do not like, and what my personal style is. I know I can pick out an outfit or clothing from 15 years ago and I'll still like and (do) wear most of them.

[anth]

I think a lot of these people that you're talking about are created due to today's internet culture. Like 80% of the (younger) population are all on Instagram or some type of forum where there are "fashionable" people, so this idea of dressing well is hitting more people right now than it ever has.

This wave of people usually have no clue where to start when it come's to dressing well (most of us don't when starting out, don't mean to sound elitist or mean here so sorry if I come off that way) so they ask around on instagram, on reddit. They get told than jeans are supposed to fit a certain way, what kind of colors to wear, what brands are cool and which ones aren't. This just ends up creating a wave of like minded people and a hivemind like mentality (see some of the forums on Reddit, 90% of the user base on /r/streetwear would be fuming if you wore big pants)- a wave of people without INDIVIDUALITY.

For me, being too focused on what's "acceptable" or whatever is "cool" is EXTREMELY counter-productive when it comes to developing your own style-when trying to be unique. You shouldn't ever be afraid of looking or feeling foolish, don't worry about what someone on some forum is going to think about your clothing. Fashion is 100% about finding yourself, not fitting in, not impressing people, but learning who you are and learning to love yourself. If you like some big pants, wear some big pants. If you like a shirt with a rainbow on it, wear the hell out of that shirt.

Individuality and your own sense of style comes with becoming comfortable with yourself, and learning that fitting in isn't what makes you dress well. But being happy with whatever piece of overpriced fabric you're wearing, whether it be completely "acceptable" or not.

[dakaf_fal]

Anth and Bobbin both make salient points.

So many internet fashion kids nowadays try to objectively identify 'good clothing' and 'good style' but often end up wearing a uniform recommended to them by their fashion media outlet of choice. It's ironic that people think they need to spend oodles of money buying into some niche brand's aesthetic in order to dress well, while most people on the street would probably perceive them as being better dressed if they wore an entire wardrobe of J Crew. In a way I guess internet fashion does make its followers unconcerned with looking good, since they don't care about the opinions of the vast majority who aren't familiar with their chosen aesthetic. This is half observation and half tongue-in-check self reflection.

I think making mistakes is key. How can you ever develop personal style if you're so afraid of getting something wrong that you won't even try? I'm definitely biased here since I also leapfrogged the phase of dressing well as a means of popularity. I spent a lot of time in grade school hanging out with art kids, goths, stoners, science nerds, and other social misfits, so while I understand clothing exists as a social signifier, I've never felt pressured to conform to typical style conventions. I do strongly buy into the concept of clothing as self-expression, which is why I don't agree with the idea that there are objectively good or bad clothes. It's a very odd concept to me that people seek spoon fed guides for how to dress since it's so inimical to any sort of personal expression.

[Eddie]

Agree with a lot of stuff that's been said. Just my 2c, I've never felt that social norms/structures have ever provided me with any discernible comfort, maybe that's another motivator for me (and others?) to develop something uniquely theirs in terms of style--a quiet rebellion against the ease of normalcy that has never been presented to them. It might sound juvenile and bitter and almost vengeful but for me that part is fading away over time and what's left is an unrelenting desire to find the 'right' way to represent myself. It can still feel increasingly self-isolating at times though since seeing anything less than full effort feels lazy and because surface level involvement with fashion is so widespread.

Also, what's up with people getting into fashion having the root desire of dressing 'better' than other people? I have so many old friends just getting into it that have that mindset and it's so strange.

[ASTROCHIMP]

[adiabatic]

[BIGBEE]

[yoyobeat]

[fun_yunchables]

i dont really want to add a long phrasing of my opinion on here since it'll get long winded but that lost in translation quote by bill murray seems pretty applicable here

not to say people are upset but caring about how other people interpret style & fashion seems a bit arrogant to me (honestly getting a huge holier than thou jizz here)

[pirxthepilot]

right but now this has come back- it always does- to some pop-culture-degraded idea of 'authentic self' that is at best inadequate, at worst (obviously) dangerous. where would the sense of 'knowing who you are' come from? not from some quasi mystical inner serenity - (well it might, but look at how off duty yoga teachers dress)
we live in a particular historical context. greek thought is the only real mode of inquiry we have. socrates' philosophical method is based around the idea of active engagement: you need doxa, opinions: only men(...) in the marketplace can tell you about yourself. in other words, you're back to throwing up questions on the internet. it is at least a method of inquiry.
( also while i think of it what you teens try to do to poor schopenhauer is not as objectionable as what the fitness/self help industries do to nietzsche but its going in that direction and needs to be stopped.)

[saveed_samir]

yall guys need to read some of the OG basics of wearing shit like this https://rcg.org/youth/articles/0705-dfto.html

edit: in response to the pirx question "where would knowing who you are come from?"... geez i dunno, maybe when u see shit u like u feel good.. when u do things u like u realise "i like this" .. i mean im not equating ur tastes with "who you are" but to a certain extent "who you are" is "what i do with my time"
i mean its not like thres 1 static "self" that we carry around with us erryday , more in the sense that ur adding and taking away shit from the big pie of urself all the time...the only "inauthentic" self is if u would deny that ever-changing aspect
double edit: nobody started talking about authenticity, u made that leap from "wear whatever u want" all the way to "authentic self" all by yourself :\

[pirxthepilot]

lolz am i the only one who knows how to read a Jarvis around here
(actually i know thats not a Jarvis.. gif? screencap?)

[saveed_samir]

what the fuck is a jarvis?
edit: o. i need to up my frequency of reading ct so i can keep up with all this bullshit

[adiabatic]

[saptapadi]

it's not fashion unless you're having fun

[can-]

I came here to shut shit down, look it up

[popcorn]

if my wardrobe is just spandex underwear, a pair of wallabees, and several sticks of burts bees lip balm, what is my next logical purchase

[fun_yunchables]

Maybe a green shirt

[alby]

Looking for suggestions. I want a necklace (chain??). gold or silver, I'm not too particular. I really like the supreme one this season, but 360$ is a crazy amount to spend. I'd like to spend under 100$. I'm not sure where to even look? I've checked a couple of thrift shops, and everything just felt kind of cheap and didn't really have what I wanted. uhh guess i'm just looking for marketplaces to look at or maybe specific items? pendants are a plus???

[sunblam]

This is more I don't know if I want, but ugu why no women's sizes & also I really don't have enough money for this rn but what if I regret it later in life?? Idk guys I just love Kusama so much

edit//also there's a lot of interesting discourse on this page, sorry I have soiled it.

[Spaceman]

Can someone help me find a nice rain jacket? I'm looking for black, mid or light weight, preferably goretex or a similar coating will do, a mesh like liner might be nice too or as long as its breathable, not too awful looking but practicality is desired. Nothing to break the bank either, about $250 max but around $100-200 preferred. Also packable is a plus, like a neat little pouch.

EDIT: I just found this which looks pretty nice and hits the marks. Any other recomendations?

[Spaceman]

I'm looking for some cool patterned pants, primarily black, looser cut, cotton. I know I like Supreme work pants and the special patterns they do like the foulard, paisley, or windowpane but can't find any in 34. If you know of any similar patterned pants let me know. Or if you have some you by chance want to sell... ;).

[zevolution]

Hey, friends.

I'm working an internship for the next 5 mos and I'm at a loss for a pair of casual shoes that I might alternate with my Postmen for work outfits. The usual look is very standard (one might say boring), a pair of j crew chinos and a ralph or j crew oxford, usually. I was thinking a pair of sand suede wallabees or a pair of white or black canvas eytys (provided I can keep the latter clean for the summer before trashing them), but under $250 I'm extremely interested in what C-T has to say about it, esp. considering I haven't visited in such a long time. thanx

[Luud]

Last summer my uniqlo bush shorts got completely destroyed and they were probably the best shorts i've ever owned. Any suggestions for cargo shorts or otherwise on the shorter side?

[Morlin]

Are there any shoes that could be worn with a suit and also more informally/with black/navy casual outfits etc. I'm picturing a really simple plain toe black oxford but idk if something exists that could be worn both formally and informally like that?