yoyobeat draws comics, and other comics too i guess

[odradek]

the best comic book is grant morrison's run on the doom patrol. garth ennis is a charlatan who just likes to make things as foul as possible and mark millar has flashes of genius but is otherwise much the same way. mike mignola could be better but there's no one better than he is at what he does so he's the best. i don't know how i feel about brian michael bendis or matt fraction. frank miller is a fascist. rob liefeld can't draw feet. alan moore is crazytown but makes good stuff.

i was really pissed with the way the winter men went out, what a cop out.

[UnwashedMolasses]

Starting a comic thread with sweeping objective statements about artists? Nice.

It's rare for me to notice bad writing, it's gotta be especially awful for it to come through. Things like the Blackest Night which were critically panned I still enjoyed mostly from a conceptual perspective. On the whole I don't typically pay attention to individual artists.

I know it's fun to rag on the big two, but they have/have had some good stuff in the past. I think not knowing anybody who's into comics helps me out because I can enjoy a lot of things without knowing the background or context or what the best runs for those characters were.

Favorite DC that I've read: Batman - The Long Halloween, Superman - Red Son, Kingdom Come

Favorite Marvel that I've read: the Cosmic sagas but especially Guardians of the Galaxy and anything with Black Bolt, Thor - God of Thunder, Uncanny X - Force

[odradek]

love all those DC ones, haven't read any of those marvel ones. if you're in the mood to "i don't know what's happening but i'll go with it," you should read crisis on infinite earths and infinite crisis to sort of familiarize/confuse yourself with the DC universe.

also on the subject of red son and re-identifying lex luthor, i've been meaning to re-read, uh, Luthor. really liked it the first time through but the second time through is usually what lets me know if i'm into it or not.

[starfox64]

There's a certain meanness to a lot of the Vertigo/"adult" stuff by Millar and Alan Moore that i find very off-putting. Violence as shock value (let's see how far we can push the envelope!). The Invisible Man is raped to death by Mr Hyde in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen vol. 2. Apollo is raped by a Captain America pastiche, who is in turn raped with a jackhammer by Midnighter (Apollo's lover) in Millar's run on The Authority. I guess this stuff is aimed at people younger than me who get a kick out of that kind of stuff (there are characters in Wanted named Shithead and Fuckwit) but it seems really lazy to me. Between a lot of the stuff he has written of late and his general interactions with other writers, Alan Moore seems like an extremely miserable person.

Anyway, the sort of meanness also comes through to me during Preacher, though admittedly I read it like 7 years ago.

I have been working my way through Scalped lately. It's pretty good, makes life on a Rez seem really terrible (which presumably it is), but so far (I'm like 2/3 of the way through) , it's a pretty typical Vertigo series, on par with like 100 Bullets.

Top three series for me are:

1. Planetary
2. All-Star Superman
3. Y

I'm leaving out Sandman just because I actually think that blows everything else out of the water and I don't know that it's really fair to compare it to anything else. I also probably should re-read it since I read it when I was 20 and there was a lot of stuff I didn't wrap my head around. I have like the first 60 issues on my computer or an external hard drive but I just haven't gotten around to it.

[Bobbin.Threadbare]

Infinite Crisis on Infinite Earths is a commitment. I had to make myself sit and read it, but it was rewarding. Identity Crisis, however, was just balls-to-the-wall awesome from the start.

I'm not going to disagree with you over Garth Ennis Odrarek, because I've already put in my time debating on comics and no one comes out a winner.

In general though, yeah, I wish he wasn't so foul -- but I wish comics didn't have girls with their tits out too.

I really liked Blackest Knight too, although it was a bit of a chore picking it up. I really enjoyed the Sinestro Corps stuff though.

Hellboy is just so much fun, I can't imagine anyone not being drawn in.

[starfox64]

Also I have been meaning to read a lot of Ed Brubaker stuff like Criminal and whatever else he has done. I started his run on Captain America but didn't get around to finishing it.

Infinite Crisis is okay but I liked Final Crisis a lot more and I think that's in part because of my general preference of Grant Morrison to Geoff Johns and more broadly what they stand for with regard to superhero comics and ideas of continuity. Both Marvel and DC have had major relaunches in the past year or two, and they handled them completely differently. What I have taken from reddit is that the Marvel stuff is totally kicking DC's ass, which makes sense given what they did, and I guess also given that the people writing about it are comic nerds who have stronger opinions about comic history and the like.

[Bobbin.Threadbare]

Marvel is kicking DC's ass in terms of cannon, yeah. But fuck it, I love DC, and I don't care how badly they fuck up (eg. the 90's), they made Starman, the best comic ever.

[starfox64]

But their canonical and editorial decisions caused James Robinson to leave the company and start writing for Marvel, and he's not the first creator to do so.

I like both Marvel and DC in different ways, but I like Marvel's direction, by and large, much more now.

[odradek]

i actually haven't read much recent marvel stuff, or really dc stuff for that matter. the last thing i read was civil war which i enjoyed parts of and and disenjoyed other parts of. where should i be picking up now?

i also neglected to mention my top three, which are
1. doom patrol
2. planetary
3. the killing joke (mostly for the last page)

as to the above, i think "meanness" is a great way to put it, but i feel like alan moore's meanness is an authentic nihilism and disgust with the world (not that that excuses anything) whereas millar and ennis are more like teenage boys sniggering about the idea of buttsex and dirty words.

[teck]

i went to nycc this year after not really following the industry for awhile. i want to say im a fan of indie comics but honestly i don't know that many. Last pick up was Gene Luen Yang's "Boxer". His "American Born Chinese" was wonderful.

I also have a bit of a morbidity with comics and am compelled to check out whatever zombie/horror schlock is out. I read some of Ennis' "The Crossed" stuff. Thank god this thread is here because I have had no one to talk to about it! It really hits you over the head with the horror/shock/gore/sexual assault. I feel it's hard to critique that stuff because it's "supposed to" be hard to read, but that's a cop out. I think if you strip away the hardcore violence (which is so in your face it's certain Ennis means for it to be a integral part of the series) you ultimate get a convoluted at worst and staid at best survival story. Has someone else read this??

[can-]

1. Sandman

[RycePooding]

I've casually read comics my entire life, but never been super into them. You guys have any good recs on series for someone with little background?

[ballast]

o snap. lot to reply to here. starting from the top:

morrison: gets a bit too weird for me sometimes, especially with stuff like the filth. that being said, i did enjoy the invisibles, all-star superman, doom patrol, and batman inc.

ennis: relies too much on profanity and vulgarity for me. was at his best writing punisher max, also enjoyed hitman and the boys. those two are pretty similar in my opinion. he has a tendency to have very similar characters across his different character-created series.

mignola: i'm an unapologetic fan of hellboy and bprd so mignola will always have a soft spot in my heart. i love the way his stuff just looks and really want a few posters. agree his writing isn't always top-notch.

bendis: i don't read enough bendis to talk a lot about him since he's primarily marvel, which i don't dabble too deep in. from what i've heard, he has kind of a mixed record, but his spider-man is supposed to be good. i enjoy guardians of the galaxy because how can you hate rocket raccoon and groot.

fraction: i really enjoy matt fraction. i find his style tends to be a little lighter and humorous than most of the other writers i read so reading his stuff is always a nice palate cleanser. immortal iron fist started strong, kinda slowing down. his hawkeye series is hilarious, it's about what hawkeye does on his days off.

miller: agree on the fascist bit.

liefeld: sucks. it says a lot when the characters he created are done best by other writers and artists. examples being glory, prophet, and supreme.

moore: dude gets crazier and crazier as time goes on. agreed that he's pretty good though, although his later stuff starts getting hit or miss.

stokoe: one of my favorite newer talents. really stand-out art style. orc stain and godzilla are definitely two series i recommend to everyone.

willingham: his fables series is alright, but he has views that conflict with mine and it shows in his comics. sometimes it makes it a bit of a chore to read.

wood: another strong new talent. writes conan the barbarian, mara, dmz, northlanders, the massive, all strong works. he tends towards realism in his style in my opinion.

snyder: really enjoyed his american vampire and batman. probably will pick up detective comics as well. pairs well with rafael alberquerque

azzarello: 100 bullets starts slow, but gets good near the end. his wonder woman is good too. i feel he's best suited to writing long sprawling arcs with lots of characters.

graham: this guy does good sci-fi work. prophet, multiple warheads. makes strange worlds, in a good way.

remender: fear agent is one of my favorite sci-fi series, and i heard good things about his uncanny xmen and punisher runs.

waid: strong writer. i liked kingdom come, his captain america and daredevil. he also did incorruptible and unredeemable, which were decent.

hickman: hickman is someone i always follow around, he does a lot of good work. east of west, manhattan projects, fantastic four, ff. i did think pax romana and nightly news were really self-indulgent and heavy-handed though.

kirkman: of walking dead fame. invincible is another good series of his. likes killing off characters.

vaughan: another standout writer. read his y: the last man, swamp thing, saga, pride of baghdad. ex machina i liked, but not as much as those others.

this is getting kinda long so i'll wrap it up with general list of artists i look for:
becky cloonan, fiona staples, rafael alberquerque, francesco francavilla, david aja

this turned into more of a recommendation station than opinions.

[ballast]

my opinions on the big two.

dc: dc is a mess right now but they were my Preferred Choice of my childhood so i keep up with them. their new 52 relaunch was a bust, with a lot of flops and a lot of strange editorial decisions, such as cancelling good comics and moving good writers/artists off titles i liked. i mostly blame the senior management, with didio being the worst of them. it seems like jim lee is struggling in his role, which saddens me because he was such an icon of '90s comics. karen berger's exit from vertigo also hurt them immensely, since her control of vertigo always seemed to make great comics. still a little worried about how that will pan out. from what i see as an outsider, it appears that talent is leaving dc in droves, due to poor management that leaves very little creative control to the artists and writers. sad stuff :(

marvel: marvel is hot right now, especially with the disney moneytrain backing them. their ips are hotter than ever, especially with the movie momentum they have. a lot of good stuff coming out from marvel and they're not afraid to snap up talent as it leaves dc. seems to be better run than dc, although they have their own issues with overmanagement. they seem like the bigger risk-taker of the two which makes them more exciting to me, and the storylines and work they're putting out have reflected that.

recommended ongoing series:

dc: aquaman (lol), wonder woman, green arrow (starting from #17), batman, batwoman, animal man, swamp thing, dial h (cancelled but written by china mieville), action comics, batman and robin

marvel: hawkeye, superior foes of spider-man, daredevil, superior spider-man, guardians of the galaxy, ff, thor - god of thunder, new avengers, indestructible hulk

[starfox64]

Dredging this back to the surface. I read the first two volumes of Immortal Iron Fist. The ending is a little disappointing, but it's a pretty good read as far as superhero stuff goes, though it largely just stays within its own world with only a few outside references to the wider Marvel Universe. Anyway, worth checking out if you're into that kind of stuff.

[odradek]

was recently alerted to this shit: http://www.amazon.com/The-Planetary-Omn ... 1401242383

which led to me being alerted to this soon-to-be shit: http://www.amazon.com/Doom-Patrol-Omnib ... 1401245625

[starfox64]

I wonder what the quality of those is like. The Absolute Editions were really cool but kind of unwieldy. They also released a series of Fourth World Omnibus volumes that were supposedly total crap (this was like 5 years ago though).

[sid3000]

#teamNamor

[djongus]

any of you into 'love and rockets' by los bros hernandez? probably my favorite 'indie' comic of all time. also geof darrow is amazing.

[verilyvert]

I'm just excited it might happen.

[ballast]

I've been reading Francavilla's "Life with Archie" series, based off the comics you find in the grocery store checkout aisle. Apparently Archie is gonna be killed (murdered?) in the final issue. Francavilla has taken it in a deliciously dark, weird take of something I remember semi-fondly from childhood. There's also "Afterlife with Archie" involving zombies which is also great. Honestly, surprisingly good and Francavilla is great as always.

A sample from Afterlife with Archie:

[ballast]

feel like i'm talking to myself at this point but:

https://www.humblebundle.com/

this week's humble bundle is comics, and its a pretty strong collection at this price. would recommend most of these.

[jrisk]

oh man, this is awesome. definitely going to pick it up tomorrow or this weekend. I've read the first couple volumes of Chew. would recommend.

[eufemism]

anyone read The Umbrella Academy by Gerard Way? Took me a while to get into it, but by the the end of the first volume i was hooked. art style is great as well.

[can-]

i re-read Osamu Tezuka's 'Buddha' in whole this past week after 10 years and have to say it has held up exceptionally well and the message/ideology is only more relevant. really moving narrative, i cried often.

[CleanThug]

any Watchmen love? finished today, Rorschach is the man.

not much of a comic guy usually other than this and some walking dead issues.

[yoyobeat]

CMD+F Gloeckner CMD+F Crumb CMD+F Ellsworth

Nothing?

Good.

Let me throw out some recs for comics that skew alternative rather than super-hero or dramatic:

1. Capacity by Theo Ellsworth. - http://www.amazon.com/Capacity-Theo-Ell ... 0979960924



This is possibly my favorite book ever, comics or otherwise. It's not perfect, and doesn't have an impeccable storyline. But it's so incredibly imaginative visually (and not just like, 'wow, so trippy and artsy' which unfortunately describes a lot of stuff). A journey through the guy's subconscious mind but done largely in an illustrative style that's self-taught and truly fresh. I read a short comic by the guy in a free comics paper I found while visiting DC years ago, and later came across Capacity in a comic shop a few years back. It's incredible.

2. A Child's Life by Phoebe Gloeckner - http://www.amazon.com/A-Childs-Life-Oth ... 1583940286



Gloeckner is a medical illustrator who can do incredibly detailed drawings. Her cartooning style, similar to Crumb's below, manages to be incredibly detailed while always keeping a strong cartoon element. She just has control over what she can do. She also does interesting paintings incorporating her medical imagery, but the comics are more my cup of tea. A Child's Life is a collection of comics that span a couple decades. Many of them have similar themes of sexual advances from her mother's boyfriend, as well as drugs and prostitution. It's autobiographical and heavy shit. I met her and she was really nice, and looks so much like she draws herself. The stories are gripping and especially that she keeps coming back to the same storyline.

3. The Complete Dirty Laundry Comics - http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Dirt ... 0867193794



Gotta have Crumb in this thread. Considered a grandfather of alternative comics... anyone producing good work usually cites him as an influence. AMAZING style. Similar to Gloeckner, he can draw incredibly detailed stuff that is still clearly cartooned. Dirty Laundry comics is a collaborative effort between him and his wife Aline, who has an 'ugly' drawing style. The collaborative element is interesting, so are the stories they tell... just go read it.

[ballast]

Bunch of free comic issues here for National Comic Book Day. Use promo code 'COMICS'

https://www.comixology.com/National-Com ... /page/3587

Stumptown, Southern Bastards, and Lumberjanes are pretty good. haven't really read the rest.

[yoyobeat]

I don't know. Drew this today. If I penciled and took my time then stuff would probably look better, but it'd be harder to start moving towards a story.

[yoyobeat]

This is a really interesting article about Wonder Woman's origins http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-cult ... 180952710/