News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bombs)

[rublev]

when i started reading this i was furious, thinking how could USA today publish such a horrible article, but then it clicked and i understood. i don't know if anjem choudary realises that he's just been taken for a ride or not, but publishing this sends quite a powerful message. even now, with this article, we still win.

[prawnzee]

[rublev]

i don't mean winning in the sense of a board game. i mean in that by publishing such a vile article they've done exactly what wouldn't be allowed under any kind of rule choudary talks about in this piece, or anything else he's written. they've published something they know almost everyone will disagree with and detest, but they've done it anyway because they can. that kind of attitude is the antithesis of what choudary professes.

[Syeknom]

[fun_yunchables]

[Syeknom]

[rublev]

[rublev]

"it was a proper invoice"

[bobo77]

[rublev]

it's all happening

[bobo77]

[nevergreen]

Deah Barakat, Yusor Mohammed Abu-Salha, and Razan Mohammed Abu-Salha were all shot execution style by their neighbor. All students at UNC. Husband, wife, and sister. Amazing people too. I don't really know what else to say but everybody should read article telling about their lives.







Meanwhile news outlets are reporting this as a "dispute over a parking spot"

[SweetJavaBrown]

I go to the same school where Razan was studying and Deah and Yusor went for undergrad. It's been a surreal experience here. While it could just be the people I choose to associate with, most everyone in Raleigh and Chapel Hill are calling it a hate crime. The parking dispute isn't even part of the conversation. There were two vigils in the past two days, one on each campus, and the turnouts were tremendous. The fundraiser () that's still going has well surpassed its goal but it's a shame that it had to get attention in the way that it did. It wasn't even close to its goal a week ago so hopefully the group can go through with the cause in honor of these three. It is great to see the communities here come together in support of their families.

[IsaiahSchafer]

Given the immediate and outward-visible/publicly available information surrounding this situation, of course it looks like a hate crime. That said, it's important that news sources report the Parking Spot possibility and it's important for detectives to follow up on it as well.

While the "why" may not have an ultimate effect on the outcome of this exact case, deciding what the case is before you investigate it is how giant mistakes are made, how innocent people are put in prison, and how juries can be incorrectly informed.

Personal opinion: I get an uneasy feeling when things like this are judged in the court of public opinion. Even if it doesn't affect the ultimate outcome here and now-- it's a dangerous precedent that has affected investigations and prosecutions in the past.

(For good examples of how public opinion/pre-conceived notions can endanger a case and how following up on every lead/indiscriminate investigation leads to justice ultimately I really like the non-fiction books The Blooding and Fire Lover, both by Joseph Wambaugh)

[thephfactor]

No, it's not really important. This crime will have/has already had the impact of a hate crime, and should be treated as such by the general public. I don't care what the police do, it's not like this guy deserves more or less the charge of hate crime or just "plain" murder.

[IsaiahSchafer]

We don't know what the guy deserves until we know the complete circumstances surrounding the case. And in the U.S. it does matter, various forms of manslaughter, 1st and 2nd degree murder, and aggravate/capital/etc (depends on state) murder. Jury aside, this all plays in to how the sentencing will go. Motive is important; prison is for retribution, incapacitation, deterrence and rehabilitation, and it's important that all aspects of the crime are taken into consideration when determining the sentence.

I don't know how to approach the "if you commit a crime are you responsible for other people's reactions to the crime" side of it, so I won't. But as an extreme example of there being a necessity for having degrees of crime, there have been made arguments (none serious/in the form of a bill as far as I know) and discussed in groups that rape should have harsher punishment. But if you take that too far, the difference between a rape charge and a murder charge becomes negligible; it begins to incentivize serious crimes to end in murder to rather risk an investigation than having a live witness and a guaranteed sentence that's the same/close enough anyway.

I have a poor habit of rambling, but in summary, if I kill a guy who killed my sibling, I'm not deserving of the same sentencing as someone who killed a guy as part of a robbery. So it is important.

[thephfactor]

I'm just saying that either way the public should treat it as what it is: a crime with psychological damage beyond it's victims, a hate crime. And take steps to help those affected in whatever way.

And I don't care what the guy deserves, as I said. We won't ever know anyway, and there are other people to worry about in this situation.

edit: I mean if there was some doubt over whether he killed them, and there was a chance his trial "in the court of public opinion" could affect whether he was given a manslaughter charge or a murder charge or whatever, it would be a different situation. but I think in this instance it's just an argument between murder and "worse" murder, which seems pointless to me. Other things to worry about, as I said.

[ramseames]

[rublev]

@UK posters... the election is almost upon us! prey tell! let us discuss the issues.

how are we all voting? what is most important to you? let us beat the ideological drum!

are you in labour battle ground north? lib dem strong hold south west? a tory marginal? don't care? not voting? let us hear!

the two things on my mind this morning:

1) roll out of the national strategy by the SNP stinks and seems contradictory for a nationalist party.

2) alarming lack of international / european discussion in all the campaigns considering a) the threats currently facing the continent we wave a large stick in, and b) one result could lead to an in / out referendum of the EU. now is the right time to make the case for why we need to keep euroland together and what it can achieve, rather than retreat to this isolationist politics!

[wiggly--woo]

This election will be my first time voting, so I'm quite looking forward to it.

The Daily Record has a neat little where you enter your postcode and gives you info on who is running in your constituency, how much of a perecentage swing is needed and a bunch of socio-economic stuff. Where I'm registered in Birmingham is currently labour but conservatives weren't far behind in 2010, so every vote (for either of those parties) could count for a lot round here.

don't particularly like any of the main parties, but like my fellow "meusli-munching gurdian-readers", i'm more than happy to try and stop the tories.

And for any UK'ers who haven't seen it, the Observer published a pretty interesting yesterday.

[maj]

First time voting too, our seat needs a 3.1% swing to drop its current conservative mp so it makes sense for me to vote labour after I've finished my overpriced bowl of gluten free musli. Although I have to say it will be a sad vote as truly, deep down I am a green supporter and the fact Wallace wants to renew trident physically hurts me, I just don't want that Tory to get any glory.

[rublev]

i know the greens are cool these days but having read the green manifesto and heard natalie 'don't ask me about figures' bennett on numerous occasions i'm almost certain that she is a steve coogen style aussie comedian who has infiltrated our political system... every interview / soundbite etc, is broadcast on a friday evening primetime comedy slot to a chorus of laughter. she and the party are proper mad (imo, everyone is entitled to their own etc)

are you a green supporter because of specific policies or more the anti politics / westminster elite jizz / ?

idk, i'm also pro our continuous at sea nuclear deterrent :s

[maj]

I'm for greens as they pretty much hit home on their major policies I'm in line with, international aid, pro environmentalism, general social democracy, while also the reasoning of a multiparty government is very attractive. Although if we're honest they don't have the experience to run a full government, its incredibly unlikely they ever will but their voice is definitely worth being represented and if they are we're a step closer to electoral reform and my dream of multiparty politics. While the closest major party labour, I hate the idea that anyone who immigrants would not be allowed financial aid for at least two years which would only serve to drive class and social divides, on top of the nuclear issue. Though they have the benifit of being major and having good strength as well as having the support of unions which is the real key of getting "normal people" into politics.

As for nuclear weapons I'm not in favour of them in any form, I believe the money is better spent on blustering non nuclear military defence or negotiating and peace keeping methods of the money is to stay in defence. The argument for "the man with the biggest stick keeps the peace" doesn't float with me as the real chance of nuclear war is tiny to say the least, and I hope the chance of this country using existing stockpile is even slimmer in the long term. In the short and medium the "real" threats to national security or international stability come from issues which can't be stopped with a nuclear deterrent anyway.

[bels]

I wouldn't mind voting green just for the crack but to be honest I'm with Rublev in that the greens seem sort of incompetent. Cambridge is pretty firmly lib dem (7% swing needed for either tory or labour) so it's a bit whatever.

Like the idea of having the greens as the "anti ukip" like them being the cool metropolitan party for people who are a bit aggro but they just seem a bit like they're all running late for a yoga class.

[rublev]

[stateofyou]

Going to be voting for the SNP.

Even for "New Labour" them completely abandoning their roots and campaigning shoulder to shoulder with the Tories, was even someone like myself who voted no (wish I hadn't now though) despicable. They don't even want to seem like a left option anymore and pander hard to middle England tory voters, potentially to even some of their base who they have lost to UKIP.

SNP will drag Labour left, have a great record here, and actually stand up for Scotland for once.

[rublev]

to be fair tho, labour 'abandoned their roots' because it made them completely unelectable. labour aren't pandering hard to middle england tory voters - they're pandering to the political persuasions of most of the country.

snp have reached cult status, sturgo and swinney could make kicking an injured dog look electable now. wouldn't trust them as far as i could throw 'them

[bels]

Had a dream the result was another Tory lib den coalition.

[stateofyou]

while yeah that's probably the case for westminster the scottish labour party (where you definetily can have a more left stance and get elected) doesn't try to make any adjustments from party line at all

do agree re a new labour jizz from the SNP, ppl talk about sturgeon like she is the messiah it's very reminiscent of Blair in 1997

I probably wont vote for them in the holyrood elections, but they really are the best option a scottish voter has atm

[bels]

Are there any of those "who should you vote for???" quizzes going round lately? I genuinely am not 100% sure.